#csk8 Archive

This chat includes a discussion of topics of interest to K-8 teachers who teach and/or integrate computer science.The Computer Science Teachers Association is a membership organization that supports and promotes the teaching of computer science and other computing disciplines. CSTA provides opportunities for K–12 teachers and students to better understand the computing disciplines and to more successfully prepare themselves to teach and learn.
Wednesday February 8, 2017
8:00 PM EST
  • participatechat Feb 8 @ 8:00 PM EST
    Participate in the upcoming #csk8 by sharing resources and collaborating at https://t.co/ImnVTD3B10
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:00 PM EST
    The CSTA K-8 Task Group welcomes you to #csk8 chat. Tonight, we will be talking about How to Teach Variables & Procedures in K-8 Coding.
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:00 PM EST
    Our moderators tonight are @Todd_Lash and @visionsbyvicky #csk8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash, @VisionsByVicky
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:00 PM EST
    Join us on Twitter OR try https://t.co/QQKbV3pwo2 where the hashtag is automatically added. #csk8
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:01 PM EST
    Don’t forget to include the hashtag #csk8 on all tweets during the chat so that everyone participating in the chat sees your posts.
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:01 PM EST
    Before we start, who’s here tonight? Please introduce yourself and let us know what grades and programming languages you teach. #csk8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:02 PM EST
    I am Sheena, a CS teacher in California for 5+ years, CSTA K-8 board member. Teach grades 6-8, Scratch, Python,Processing #csk8
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:02 PM EST
    Jon here - cofounder of @kodable. Not a classroom teacher but I would say K-5 :) #csk8
    In reply to @kodable
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:03 PM EST
    #csk8 Mark Miller, ED, https://t.co/LP2bL8AMzE
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:03 PM EST
    #csk8 Mark Miller, ED, https://t.co/Hdrtqz42TN
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:03 PM EST
    Howdy folks! I'm Todd, doctoral student in SPED at the University of Illinois. #csk8 #CSforAll
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:03 PM EST
    I'm a tech integrator at an elementary school in mid-coast ME. Just discovered #csk8 20 minutes ago!
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:03 PM EST
    Hi Jon and welcome! So glad to have you here. #csk8
    In reply to @jonmattingly, @kodable
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:03 PM EST
    @GeoffCyr Wow, glad you discovered us. #csk8
    In reply to @GeoffCyr, @GeoffCyr
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:04 PM EST
    #csk8 we offer coding, making, robotics from grade 1 though 10
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:04 PM EST
    I'm a pre-service Computer Science teacher from Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario. I teach Grade 9-12 CS. Happy to join in! #CSK8
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:04 PM EST
    Welcome back Mark! Looking forward to your thoughts! #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:05 PM EST
    Hi all, I'm Vicky, a K-8 tech teacher in the Los Angeles area. I teach a lot of Scratch along with some Python and Javascript. #csk8
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:05 PM EST
    I teach Python, ActionScript and Java. #CSK8
    In reply to @pauldallison
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:05 PM EST
    @pauldallison Welcome! #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison, @pauldallison
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:05 PM EST
    Hi Geoff. Curious... how did you find out about #csk8. As someone who helps on these chats, would like to know what worked #csk8
    In reply to @GeoffCyr
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:05 PM EST
    Hey Sheena! Great to have you with us tonight! #csk8
    In reply to @Sheena1010
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:06 PM EST
    I found #csk8 on this website: https://t.co/NDmHetYRh0
    In reply to @Sheena1010
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:06 PM EST
    Hi Paul, Action Script as in Flash ActionScript? #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:07 PM EST
    The #csk8 chat is a structured chat which means questions will be numbered Q1 for Question 1, Q2 for Question 2, etc.
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:07 PM EST
    Answers should start with A1 for the answer to Q1, A2 to answer Q2, etc. matching the question being answered. #csk8
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:08 PM EST
    @Sheena1010 looking for new T-chats. Interested in integrating comp. sci in classroom and what's next after #HourofCode #csk8
    In reply to @Sheena1010
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:08 PM EST
    Just out of curiousity why ActionScript. #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:08 PM EST
    Be watching for Question #1 of tonight’s chat! #csk8
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:09 PM EST
    Q1: At what age do you start teaching variables? Why then? #csk8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:09 PM EST
    . Glad you found us. We all do lot of CS integration and much more than hoc, hopefully you will find resources #csk8
    In reply to @GeoffCyr
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:10 PM EST
    Great! I know I have a lot of learning to do myself! Trying to balance with coaching robotics and grad school #csk8
    In reply to @Sheena1010
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:11 PM EST
    A1: We start variables grade 5 in our school district. Ss do Scratch integration lessons starting 3rd grade #csk8
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:11 PM EST
    A1: 2nd/3rd. Variables can be tricky, more abstract. Better to get a foundation in programming logic in K/1 before adding complexity #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:12 PM EST
    #csk8 A1 For most kids, 5th grade seem ideal. Some are ready at 4th. relates to piagetian stages
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:12 PM EST
    Agreed. #csk8
    • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:11 PM EST
      A1: 2nd/3rd. Variables can be tricky, more abstract. Better to get a foundation in programming logic in K/1 before adding complexity #csk8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:12 PM EST
    A1: Typically 3rd. Once students start writing games, they want to keep score & that's when my students start using variables. #csk8
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:13 PM EST
    What are some of those logic pieces or experiences that you feel like kids need Jon? How do we get them there? #csk8
    In reply to @jonmattingly
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:13 PM EST
    A1: When doing LEGO robots with 3-5 Ss, I think they understand what vars. are but don't know what to do with them. Help? #csk8
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:13 PM EST
    .@VisionsByVicky Game score is GREAT way to introduce variables! Includes key concepts like incrementing/decrementing and persistence #csk8
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:13 PM EST
    Absolutely. The teacher I'm working with is looking to modify this course - potentially to app development #CSK8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:14 PM EST
    @GeoffCyr It may be that they really aren't understanding what they are which is why they don't know how to use them. #csk8
    In reply to @GeoffCyr, @GeoffCyr
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:14 PM EST
    Can you say more about the Piaget steps Mark and how that relates to CSed? #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:15 PM EST
    Agree. Before 5th, they do it by remixing, not independently. More as a block like 'score' that is needed to make the game #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller
  • AssignmentHelpN Feb 8 @ 8:15 PM EST
    #atchat #AVIDchat #csk8 #ctedlead #currichat #EdBeat #2ndchat A Quick Guide on How to Write a Book Review https://t.co/3BnLyV1BCF
  • massignmenthelp Feb 8 @ 8:15 PM EST
    #atchat #AVIDchat #csk8 #ctedlead #currichat #EdBeat #edubkcl #2ndchat Start a blog in college https://t.co/SW64eeDA9h
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:15 PM EST
    Could be. I'm not sure I really have an effective way to explain them beyond "container of information" #csk8
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:16 PM EST
    Follow up to Q1: When do you introduce lists and why then? #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:16 PM EST
    #csk8 true use of variables represents the transition from concrete operations to formal operations. Able to use abstractions
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:16 PM EST
    That way of explaining helps to differentiate from the math idea of variables as an unknown :) #csk8
    In reply to @GeoffCyr, @VisionsByVicky
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:17 PM EST
    @mlmiller Can you give me an example of what you mean by that in a student project? #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller, @Todd_Lash, @mlmiller
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:17 PM EST
    The first activity I assign is to create a Pong game in @scratch. Variables are used to keep score - fundamental concept. #CSK8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash, @scratch
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:18 PM EST
    .@Todd_Lash Sequence, the nature of ‘writing code’ . Once connect dots from code>something happening, you start manipulating screen #csk8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:18 PM EST
    #csk8 ultimately, CS is about using abstraction to manage complexity
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:18 PM EST
    .@Todd_Lash Variables are what makes programs dynamic and not static. Difference between ‘on-rails’ and ‘creative’ programming #csk8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:18 PM EST
    @pauldallison Yes, keeping score is a great way to intro variables, for sure. #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison, @Todd_Lash, @scratch, @pauldallison
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:18 PM EST
    We do lists in grade 6, but probably can do them earlier. It is more to do with # of lessons to teach other ideas #csk8
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:19 PM EST
    I wonder if more opp. to manipulate algebraic variables might strengthen Ss understand of prog. var.? #csk8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash, @VisionsByVicky
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:19 PM EST
    Lots of big ideas in terms of flow of control. Do you feel like there is a most developmently approp. progression? #csk8
    In reply to @jonmattingly
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:20 PM EST
    A1-2: I typically do lists in 5th or 6th. Just haven't found a need for it before them. #csk8
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:20 PM EST
    FA1: we introduce arrays after strings + integers. Important to know different types of vars to understand power/complexity of arrays #csk8
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:20 PM EST
    I introduce lists to my Gr. 9 students. Students have the fundamentals and can more easily conceptualize data structures. #CSK8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:20 PM EST
    @GeoffCyr Maybe, but I find that it can be actually confuse since variables in Algebra are diff than in CS. #csk8
    In reply to @GeoffCyr, @Todd_Lash, @GeoffCyr
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:21 PM EST
    #csk8 example:letting N be the # of sides in a regular polygon. Turtle can draw w repeat n times, turn 360/n
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky, @Todd_Lash
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:21 PM EST
    .@Todd_Lash Seq>Cond>Loops>Func>Vars is best. Understand flow, then modify flow, then reusing the flow creators, then make it dynamic #csk8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:22 PM EST
    Do you feel like you could intro it earlier if it was block based? #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:22 PM EST
    @pauldallison Do you start w/any block-based programming? #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison, @pauldallison
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:23 PM EST
    Yes for my Python class -we do integers, strings, conditionals, loops, and then lists so they can appreciate them! #csk8
    In reply to @jonmattingly
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:23 PM EST
    Be watching for Question #2 about how to teach variables. #csk8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:23 PM EST
    Q2: How do you teach variables and lists? Please share lesson plans, student projects, etc. #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:23 PM EST
    #csk8 A1+ Lists when student project creates compelling need, eg inventory or treasures found
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:24 PM EST
    Absolutely! I'm a high school teacher, so Grade 9 is the earliest that I can introduce new concepts. #CSK8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:24 PM EST
    Good answer. :) #csk8
    • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:23 PM EST
      #csk8 A1+ Lists when student project creates compelling need, eg inventory or treasures found
      In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:24 PM EST
    .@Sheena1010 Still trying to think of a good way to teach objects in arrays at this level…thats when true power of arrays comes in #csk8
    In reply to @Sheena1010
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:24 PM EST
    Right. I was thinking in Scratch of combining variables with operators and experimenting with diff. manips #csk8
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky, @Todd_Lash
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:24 PM EST
    Yes, I begin with @scratch. I've also done some experimenting with @MITAppInventor :) #CSK8
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky, @scratch, @MITAppInventor
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:26 PM EST
    A2: Start on a when needed basis which is typically how to keep score in a game. #csk8
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:26 PM EST
    A2: Free one @kodable - Ss use vals (ideas) + input into variable (class envelope) to reinforce knowledge of vars and changing values #csk8
    In reply to @kodable
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:26 PM EST
    #csk8 impt to talk about the differences and encourage students to compate/reflect
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky, @GeoffCyr, @Todd_Lash
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:26 PM EST
    A2: Introduce variables using score in a game, and then later as something to hold changing user input - e.g a Mad Lib project #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:27 PM EST
    #csk8 i would argue for the converse if diffs are well articulated
    In reply to @GeoffCyr, @Todd_Lash, @VisionsByVicky
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:27 PM EST
    A2: Typically have 4th or 5th create math game using variables to store not only score but values to be added or multiplied. #csk8
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:28 PM EST
    A2: I like to teach these using @ProjectGUTS use, modify, create idea. Even early on, kids can use and explore, then modify etc... #csk8
    In reply to @ProjectGUTS
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:28 PM EST
    Right. If we strengthen Ss algebraic thinking, it might lead to better CS understanding? #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller, @VisionsByVicky, @Todd_Lash
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:28 PM EST
    @Sheena1010 Interesting. I use a list for MadLibs. That's typically my intro to lists. #csk8
    In reply to @Sheena1010, @Sheena1010
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:28 PM EST
    A2: Lesson plan is called Violet’s Variables. Changing game score is also excellent way. Fun for Ss to give themselves high score! #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:28 PM EST
    #csk8 vars in lego are more cumbersome, use in scatch first
    In reply to @GeoffCyr
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:29 PM EST
    A2: In a "Space Invaders" game. Lists are used to store enemies. #CSK8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:29 PM EST
    Fun activity to intro what a variable is in CS https://t.co/vawveXQbAu I like to add math as well. #csk8
  • GeoffCyr Feb 8 @ 8:30 PM EST
    I agree with you on that! I still have mostly NXT and that's even worse still compared to EV3! #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller
  • EduGladiators Feb 8 @ 8:30 PM EST
    ❤️SATURDAY #EduGladiators series continues w/@PaulONeill1972 moderating - Discipline from the ❤️! #ATchat #CPChat #csk8 #currichat #edbeat
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:30 PM EST
    Kids think they are so sneaky when they do this in games. Awesome discovery learning potential :) #csk8
    In reply to @jonmattingly
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:31 PM EST
    .@Todd_Lash I discovered programming at 6 w/ a combination of gameboy emulators in MS-DOS and making cheat codes on a gameshark #csk8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:31 PM EST
    You sir, ROCK! #csk8
    In reply to @jonmattingly
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:31 PM EST
    A2: Talked about using drawing polygons to intro loops last time. Like to use variables to then ask # of sides and rewrite to use it. #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:31 PM EST
    #csk8 we use an unplugged var game to show var as container w NAME and VALUE or (ala Seymour) a THING
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky, @GeoffCyr, @Todd_Lash
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:31 PM EST
    A2: Great Intro to variables from @codeorg: https://t.co/MIWBag4B1w #CSK8
    In reply to @codeorg
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:32 PM EST
    Coming right up with Question 3 about misconceptions and other problems. #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:32 PM EST
    #csk8 u can use ev3 sw with both, which helps some
    In reply to @GeoffCyr
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:33 PM EST
    Q3: What are misconceptions and other problems that students have with variables & lists and how do you help them overcome these? #csk8
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:34 PM EST
    A3: Until Vars, everything Ss learn in coding “does” something. Vars don’t “do”, they just exist. Difference between hammer and nail. #csk8
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:35 PM EST
    A3: Need to explain - Without a hammer, a nail does nothing. But without a nail, a hammer can’t build anything big :) #csk8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:35 PM EST
    A3: I find that Ss confuse the difference between setting a variable & incrementing a variable. #csk8
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:36 PM EST
    .@VisionsByVicky Do they struggle with incrementing vs decrementing similarly? Or is that easier to understand? #csk8
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:36 PM EST
    A3: When I get new MS students, they can have problems with variables b/c they're doing algebra in math & variables in CS confuse them #csk8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:36 PM EST
    A3: Variables can be used in places where there is a number or string. In Scratch, they do not see the orange block as an item! #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:36 PM EST
    Q2 #csk8 score good starting point, then 2-player scores, timers. interative story 2 endings w var. later params to blocks. lists. unplugged
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:37 PM EST
    @jonmattingly Decrementing can be a problem for young Ss in Scratch b/c it's change by a negative #. Different issue than set though. #csk8
    In reply to @jonmattingly, @jonmattingly
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:38 PM EST
    Can you explain that one a bit Sheena? #csk8
    In reply to @Sheena1010
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:39 PM EST
    @Sheena1010 Do you ever spend time talking about the variables Scratch has built in b4 your have them create their own? #csk8
    In reply to @Sheena1010, @Sheena1010
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:40 PM EST
    Students often do not realize that you can store anything in variables - not just numbers! Looking for suggestions :) #CSK8
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:40 PM EST
    #csk8 a great bug to add to their bug collection
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:40 PM EST
    Hey @alfredtwo curious on your thoughts with the #csk8 chat right now.
    In reply to @alfredtwo
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:40 PM EST
    @pauldallison Yep and I think that can be helped by having them do projects that use strings instead of numbers. #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison, @pauldallison
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:41 PM EST
    We’re switching gears to procedures (functions) with Question 4. #csk8
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:41 PM EST
    .@pauldallison Weak/strong typing with variables can confuse students. Try introducing ‘different’ vars: ‘string vars’ ‘int vars’, etc #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:41 PM EST
    Yes, I call blue 'Answer' as a special variable made by Scratch for user input. First time they see var as a container #csk8
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:41 PM EST
    #csk8 remember that part of the vision for "mathland" was not a better way to explain math, but a better math
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:43 PM EST
    A3 #csk8 if kids learn some CS before algebra, it will be easier for them
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:43 PM EST
    Q4: When do you introduce procedures (functions)? Why at that time? #csk8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:43 PM EST
    Yes, I do see this. #csk8
    • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:43 PM EST
      A3 #csk8 if kids learn some CS before algebra, it will be easier for them
      In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:44 PM EST
    Yes with Scratch, Ss do see a "mathland" with more meaningful math they can play with... trying to get it into math classes. #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:44 PM EST
    #csk8 great q! I actually don't but worth considering
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky, @Sheena1010
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:45 PM EST
    A4: 2nd, or to an advanced 1st. Ss need to be developed enough to understand relationship w/ func ‘symbol’ and commands it represents #csk8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:46 PM EST
    A4: We introduce it in 6th in our Processing/JavaScript unit - give them functions to use in animations. Some then modify them. #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:46 PM EST
    #csk8 username is a good early example in a conversation world that isn't a num.
    In reply to @pauldallison, @VisionsByVicky
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:47 PM EST
    So you are giving them pre-made functions first? #csk8
    In reply to @Sheena1010
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:48 PM EST
    A4: I do some with this with 4th-6th but would love to do it more effectively. Not sure what to do with it though? #csk8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:48 PM EST
    A4: If there is time, I also do Make your own Blocks in Scratch - example make a Jump block for your sprite #csk8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:48 PM EST
    Watch for Question 5 about how you teach this. #csk8
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:49 PM EST
    Q5: How do you teach procedures (functions)? Please share lesson plans, student projects, etc #csk8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:49 PM EST
    Yes, due to time. first time, they see it as a block of code they can use by calling its name, do not need to write it #csk8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:50 PM EST
    A5: I don't do this well. :) Again, start with either something like a jump in make a block in Scratch or ... #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:50 PM EST
    #csk8 i don't think strongly type vars are helpful in K8. A name that can contain ANYTHING is better
    In reply to @jonmattingly, @pauldallison
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:51 PM EST
    A5: Again use the drawing a polygon where Ss make a block in Scratch to draw a polygon sending in number of sides & length of sides. #csk8
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:51 PM EST
    A4: I feel it is best to teach functions earlier rather than later before students get into habit of not using functions. #CSK8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:51 PM EST
    A5: In my Python class, we have them work a lot on making functions. Especially good within a turtle module to make complex artwork #csk8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:51 PM EST
    @mlmiller And there aren't variable types in Scratch. #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller, @jonmattingly, @pauldallison, @mlmiller
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:52 PM EST
    .@VisionsByVicky Have you tried our free function lesson plan - fuzzFamily Fitness? #csk8
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:52 PM EST
    #csk8 note that Scratch does not have functions. That is why I switch to SNAP when kids r ready.
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:52 PM EST
    Interesting point. #csk8
    • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:51 PM EST
      A4: I feel it is best to teach functions earlier rather than later before students get into habit of not using functions. #CSK8
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:53 PM EST
    This is great. They need to be led to see the need and the power! #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:53 PM EST
    @mlmiller True but it does have something similar. #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller, @mlmiller
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:53 PM EST
    #csk8 except lists, which was an ugly way to do it (var typing)
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky, @jonmattingly, @pauldallison
  • alfredtwo Feb 8 @ 8:53 PM EST
    Lack of functions is a big handicap for Scratch in my opinion #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller, @VisionsByVicky
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:53 PM EST
    Agree,thinking of re-ordering this semester, but then I want them to make many new programs than lots of defs inside one #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:54 PM EST
    Hey Alfred! Thanks for joining! #csk8
    In reply to @alfredtwo, @mlmiller, @VisionsByVicky
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:54 PM EST
    Last question of the night coming up! #csk8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:54 PM EST
    Was waiting for one or both of you to complain about the lack of functions in Scratch :) I hear you ! #csk8
    In reply to @alfredtwo, @mlmiller
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:54 PM EST
    #csk8 It has local-to-sprite byo blocks only. a serious shortcoming imho
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:54 PM EST
    A5: You cannot learn computer science without learning functions. Just impossible. Literally all the code I write is in functions! #csk8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:54 PM EST
    @mlmiller It is but it's good for young students. #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller, @mlmiller
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:55 PM EST
    Q6: What are problems that students have with procedures (functions)? How do you help students overcome these? #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:55 PM EST
    #csk8 A4 for python functions are where you start
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • alfredtwo Feb 8 @ 8:56 PM EST
    I talk about variables being addresses for location that can hold anything. #CSK8
    In reply to @pauldallison, @VisionsByVicky
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:57 PM EST
    A6: Most of my Ss use Scratch and I find they use broadcast rather than making a block for things like "jump" for example. #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:57 PM EST
    #csk8 I talked to Mitch over linch last week. His position is that Scratch was never meant to teach CS.
    In reply to @Sheena1010, @alfredtwo
  • pauldallison Feb 8 @ 8:57 PM EST
    Even when students can write code, they get overwhelmed when functions are introduced. Begin with simple functions. #CSK8
    In reply to @Todd_Lash
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:57 PM EST
    A6: Understanding function represents a series of ‘commands’. Best way to help is show function in action, let Ss see cause + effect! #csk8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:58 PM EST
    A6: Obvious ones - using the same name as a variable, forgetting to call it, not understanding scope of var #csk8
  • VisionsByVicky - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:59 PM EST
    Variable scope can definitely be a big one. #csk8
    • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:58 PM EST
      A6: Obvious ones - using the same name as a variable, forgetting to call it, not understanding scope of var #csk8
  • mlmiller Feb 8 @ 8:59 PM EST
    #csk8 yet young students could do logo including functions, variables, recursion as young as 3rd grade!
    In reply to @VisionsByVicky
  • jonmattingly Feb 8 @ 8:59 PM EST
    .@pauldallison @Todd_Lash I think only if intro'd incorrectly. All func are- containers for code. Passing in vals complicates things #csk8
    In reply to @pauldallison, @Todd_Lash
  • alfredtwo Feb 8 @ 8:59 PM EST
    A6: Kids have trouble with functions that return values and those values have to be specified. They expect the function to know #CSK8
  • Sheena1010 - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:59 PM EST
    Ha! That is a good way of seeing it - as a tool to make art, animations etc, the coding is just a way to do that. #csk8
    In reply to @mlmiller, @alfredtwo
  • Todd_Lash - Moderator Feb 8 @ 8:59 PM EST
    What do you see them understanding functions as... or do they just not get it at all? #csk8
    In reply to @jonmattingly